Air Con Warm Air Issue.

[torvil]

The air con on my galaxy no longer blows cool air.

It has been re charged, confirmed that no leaks are present as the engineer has re-visited two weeks later and confirmed that it's holding it's pressure and levels, also the compressor engages and disengages.

I was wondering if anyone has experienced this and has a solution like a knackered climate control unit or temp sensor.

[seatkid]

Not much of an engineer if he couldnt advise you what the problem is.....a pressure test is not the way to check the gas content.

 

Some questions...

 

When you had the car regassed, was the system vacuumed before refilling?

 

Did you get a report showing how much gas had been charged into the system (in grams)?

 

I assume from your vehicle description that it is fitted wih a climatronic system - climate control with an LCD control panel?

 

Does the LCD panel flash (all segments) for about 15 secs when you start the car? (indicating it has detected a problem, such as gas pressure, stuck temperature flaps etc. etc.)

 

Is your car a standard single system or a dual system? Dual systems have overhead vents in the passenger section and only one opening rear quarter window - dont confuse this rare option with the dual zone display on the CC unit which all systems have.

 

If it has a dual compressor system, did the engineer test and fill both systems? (and give you a report on the fill quantities)

 

Are you just taking the engineers word that the compressor is working?

 

Can you hear the "clack" of the compressor clutch when going from ECON to AUTO?

 

Does the engine (idle) revs momentarily dip a little when the compressor engages? (indicating the compressor is actually doing some work)

 

When in AUTO, do the engine radiator cooling fans come on? (at low speed)

 

Check the two aluminium pipes coming out the back of the compressor - the one going to the condensor (the radiator at the front of the engine) should get hot to touch, the other going down under the engine should get cold when the compressor is running.

Edited July 1, 2012 by seatkid

[SilverBeast]

If it has a dual compressor system, did the engineer test and fill both systems? (and give you a report on the fill quantities)

 

I believe seatkid means dual zone system.

 

I wait to be corrected but I believe the dual zone system uses the same compressor and fill points as the single zone system, it just has more pipework to another evaporator in the nearside rear wheelarch along with more sensors and controls. You put more refrigerant into a dual zone system. I believe the rear roof vents will only blow cooled air when the system is on recirculate, if I understood the Ford Handbook properly, I never used it in the few (wintery) months between getting the car and having the radiator replaced, at which point I believe the garage damaged the pipework.

 

(Strangely enough they said they didn't go near where the pipework is leaking. However when I have been taking the front end apart to give access to the pipe, the pipes going to it have been bent where they have moved the condensor, heatexchanger and oil radiator out of the way to fix it! - sounding familiar seatkid?)

 

My 2005 MKII has the dual zone system and is due to have a pipe repaired tomorrow, then we will see if it still works.

 

I believe a blocked pollen filter can prevent the car cooling properly if it hasn't been changed for some time.

 

To check if compressor is engaging listen as seatkid suggests and/or identify the compressor in the engine pay and observe the nuts/bolts in the centre of the pulley while it turns on and off. They should start and stop rotating as it engages and disengages (an assistant turning AUTO on and off helps).

 

WARNING:- Be VERY careful when observing and make sure no loose clothing/hair gets near the drive belt/fans.

[seatkid]

Silverbeast is correct, sorry got carried away, the dual zone system is a single compressor with dual evaporators and a larger quantity fill than the standard single zone system.

[inchley313]

I might be way off the beaten track here but have you replaced your cabin filter recently? I ask because this can prevent the cold air flowing freely into the vents.

[inchley313]

If it has a dual compressor system, did the engineer test and fill both systems? (and give you a report on the fill quantities)

 

I believe seatkid means dual zone system.

 

I wait to be corrected but I believe the dual zone system uses the same compressor and fill points as the single zone system, it just has more pipework to another evaporator in the nearside rear wheelarch along with more sensors and controls. You put more refrigerant into a dual zone system. I believe the rear roof vents will only blow cooled air when the system is on recirculate, if I understood the Ford Handbook properly, I never used it in the few (wintery) months between getting the car and having the radiator replaced, at which point I believe the garage damaged the pipework.

 

(Strangely enough they said they didn't go near where the pipework is leaking. However when I have been taking the front end apart to give access to the pipe, the pipes going to it have been bent where they have moved the condensor, heatexchanger and oil radiator out of the way to fix it! - sounding familiar seatkid?)

 

My 2005 MKII has the dual zone system and is due to have a pipe repaired tomorrow, then we will see if it still works.

 

I believe a blocked pollen filter can prevent the car cooling properly if it hasn't been changed for some time.

 

To check if compressor is engaging listen as seatkid suggests and/or identify the compressor in the engine pay and observe the nuts/bolts in the centre of the pulley while it turns on and off. They should start and stop rotating as it engages and disengages (an assistant turning AUTO on and off helps).

 

WARNING:- Be VERY careful when observing and make sure no loose clothing/hair gets near the drive belt/fans.

 

Sorry, didn't realize you already covered this, I must start reading posts properly before offering my advice!! XD

[SilverBeast]

 

Sorry, didn't realize you already covered this, I must start reading posts properly before offering my advice!! XD

 

No worries, I do it all the time, usually because I spend so long typing it up that someone else has already covered it! :)

[SilverBeast]

I believe the rear roof vents will only blow cooled air when the system is on recirculate, if I understood the Ford Handbook properly.

 

I was wrong about this, the wording in the handbook is confusing in that it says the Rear Air Con only works in "recirculate mode". It doesn't mean you have to set the system to recirculate mode, it means that the air in the rear compartment is drawn from inside the car prior to cooling not from outside. The front air-con (&heating) has the option of drawing the from outside through the Pollen Filter as normal or from inside when you press the recirulate switch.

 

Mine is now repaired and blows 8.6C from the centre console vents on LO setting. This is better than the air-con man's S-Max which can only manage 10-11C when freshly fettled.

[inchley313]

Would you believe my A/C doesn't seem to work either!! I changed the A/C compressor myself for the previous owner when I worked for him and it was re-gassed at the time. When I push the A/C button, I cannot feel any change in the revs nor can I hear the clutch kick in so I am going to have to remove the under tray again and see what is going on.

 

I am pretty sure that the cabin filter is blocked on mine as I have never replaced it and my former boss doesn't remember ever having it changed and he bought the car new back in 2002.

 

I would assume it was replaced by Ford in the first 3 years when it went there for service but certainly hasn't been done since!

 

I will replace this first and let you all know if this changes anything but I'm pretty sure I am going to need to investigate this further.

[SilverBeast]

Hi Inchey,

On the TDI's you can see the air con pulley from above without removing anything - not sure about on the 2.3. See above.

It's probably easier to remove the front bumper cover to check air-con issues as it exposes more of the pipework and the receiver/drier on the condensor. One of the common leak points is the cap where the drier cartridge fits. Search the forum for details. I was lucky mine had been greased so it had not corroded so was able to replace the cartridge when my pipework was repaired.

It is common (according to the specialist who repaired mine ) for it to leak in the pipework under the drivers headlight where it goes throught the mounting clip. The smaller diameter (High Pressure pipe) below was leaking on mine.

Unfortunately you have to remove the (fibre glass?) panel that goes across the whole front of the car to get at it. This isn't too bad on the TDI130 as the only circuit you need to break is the air-con circuit (the pipe from the bottom of the condensor below the drier cartridge). I supported the radiators by a cuple of ropes from a garage roof beam.

Unfortunately I forgot to take a photo with the panel off :glare:

[torvil]

Hi folks just an update. The engineer came back round two weeks ago and regassed the system with some dye after pumping nitrogen (I think) into the system to see if it was holding pressure. It did at first but after 30 minutes it started to drop albeit very slowly. The dye didn't detect a leak and when regassed the system worked a treat.....for the first 10 mins anyway. He noticed that the cold air pipe want getting cold even though the pressure was still high in the system. Low and behold the compressor wasn't working again and now no cold air. His verdict was that he thought that the compressor was faulty and that there was probably a further issue which couldn't be diagnosed until the compressor is replaced. £190 + vat for the part £60 labour and then the threat of a (at worst) leaking pipe from behing the engine, im in a quandary of whether to get it repaired it part ex the car. It's such a shame as we live the car but need the A/C in the summer months due to the motorway commuting it does. Any further advice would be appreciated.

[torvil]

I forgot to mention that it is a single zone system without the roof vents, and the compressor is not working now (no change of rpm). The climatronic doesn't flash on startup. The engineer stated that this type of system (self driven or something) is more difficult to diagnose compressor fault that other vehicles.

[chrispb123456]

Have you removed the cap from the air drier and checked for leaks there, also follow pipework through wheel arch where the pipes are clipped they corrode and leak, can be difficult to see as they are well hidden

[SilverBeast]

Did you watch him work?

The engineer who did mine (and regassed my wifes car):-

(i) Pressure tested with dry nitrogen (from a bottle) for around 30-60 mins

(ii) Vacuum tested (using a vacuum pump to evacuate) for a similar amount of time

(iii) Filled with new refrigerant (bottle on a scale so he can weigh how much has been filled) - Did he put the correct amount for your vehicle in it should be on the front fibre glass panel described above. If he put too much in then the system won't work either as it will be overpressured.

(iv) Did he remove the front bumper cover (see picture above) to check drier (as Chris has just asked) - it's the black vertical tube on the left of the radiator in my picture above and needs a plastic cap removing before it can be inspected.

 

The pipes chis is referring to were my problem and not easy to see. You can use a mirror but I found it easier to use a small digital camera (Canon IXUS 80). They are shown in my picture above exposed after the repair (fibre glass front panel off). Below you can see where the dissapear under the front panel below drivers headlight and a couple of shots with the camera looking sideways under the panel. The last one shows a lot of corrosion around the smaller (high pressure) pipe where it clips to the body.

 

Incidently if a pipe is leaking I believe it will cool down without the system on as the refrigerant evaporates, particulary around the leak area. The refrigerant bottle used to fill the system above (about the size of the smallest calor gas bottle that has a handle) had a heating element fastened to it as even removing the amount for my dual zone system would be enough to cool it and allow condensation to form.

[SilverBeast]

...actually the first picture in post #10 shows the corrosion pretty well!

 

Forgot to mention VAG-COM/VCDS Diagnostic lead and the free software will show some faults on the Climatronic system including I believe Hi/Lo pressure (though I never saw any on mine even when it was empty). It's worth getting one anyway if you intend to keep the car as they are under £10 delivered on ebay - particularly if it is a diesel

[alan_131]

If it's leaking to the point where the compressor refuses to kick in then I think you should see the display flash on startup - mine certainly did. VCDS was reporting a code for the tri-state pressure switch too. You'll not regret spending the £10 to get a lead as SilverBeast suggests - best diagnostic tenner I ever spent - and then check for codes.

Many vws apparently use a variable compressor, don't know if I read about this here re galaxy, but they can be modified to work in a fixed mode if the problem is this part is flaky.

 

I would have thought that the engineer should have been able to tell if the system was asking the compressor clutch to engage; my guess would be that this is on or off, with maybe a reduced holding current once the clutch engages. If so, maybe fairly simple to test for voltage or current at the connector?

 

System won't ask the compressor to run unless it thinks outside temp is above a certain level (5C?). Not sure on the climatronic if there is a separate thermoswitch for this, or if it uses the ordinary ouside temp sensor that feeds the display. ...

[torvil]

Thanks for the replies I clearly have a few more avenues to explore now.

I did watch what he was doing when he performed the procedure on both occasions. He did have the car ticking over for at least 30 mins when he pressure tested it with the nitrogen.

When he put the coolant in he knew how much to put in and the system worked for a few minutes and initially he claimed that the pressure didn't drop which he couldn't understand. He did mention the drier and appeared to examine it after the refrigerant and dye had been out in but he never removed any panels to perform closer inspection.

I assume that if there is corrossion around the pipe work enough to make the system fail, it's can be seen to the naked eye? Should there be other signs ie signs of the refrigerant leak.

[SilverBeast]

You can probably see the corrosion but not the hole. There could be corrosion anyway but no hole yet. The dye needs a UV light, and usually coloured glasses to get better contrast to see the dye where there is a leak.

 

I'm surprised the car was running for the pressure test as the pressure comes from the bottle, not running the aircon system. With mine we already had a fair idea of where the leak was from previous diagnosis (but they didn't want to fix it as involved a lot of stripping down). When pressurised we coud hear gas hissing from the faulty area, which is a common point of failure as chris said.

 

Have you a MKI or MKII Galaxy? if you add details of MK, year and engine to your signature as in the Technical Section Index, it makes it easier for others to answer your questions as there are quite a few differences, particlulary with engine and electrical items. I believe the aircon drier is in a different location on MKI's from MKII's.

[torvil]

Mk 2 facelift. I can't find out how to add a signature. The model is on my profile with a photo.

[chrispb123456]

Signature

 

Click on your name (top right) then click my settings then on the left of that screen click on change signature, type in your car details and anything else you want, save changes job done

 

Info then will be displayed as below every time you post.

[ghr]

Sounds the same as the problem I had. Changed the receiver/dryer and got it recharged. No leaks. Ran cold for ten minutes and then got warm. Kept running this cycle of cold and then warm for the next few days. Then a smell came through the vents that made you gag - immediately after this the system blew icy cold air and still is almost a year later. I remember Seatkid thought that it could be a sensor that interpreted the blockage as ice and that the blockage cleared itself. Where this sensor is I haven't a clue.

[torvil]

No fault codes on vag con. Did initially have engine coolant temp sensor 17664 but have erased this.

Not apparent signs of leaks or corrosion.

I'm going to try for a second opinion.

Why does the galaxy have so much glass. It would be fine to drive everywhere with the windows down if we didn't use it on the motorway.

[torvil]

Got a second opinion o Eric the phone today by another local engineer who stated that this problem I'd almost definately a faulty internal part in the compressor. He did mention the known pipe corrosion problem around the headlamp and that the pipe work is fitted prior to the engine figment at the factory which he states is very common on our vehicles.

The decision of whether to spend £300 on a compressor refit and the gamble of it being something as well which is at sorts an engine out job is a tough one.

[seatkid]

I forgot to mention that it is a single zone system without the roof vents, and the compressor is not working now (no change of rpm). The climatronic doesn't flash on startup. The engineer stated that this type of system (self driven or something) is more difficult to diagnose compressor fault that other vehicles.

 

If the climatronic LCD display doesnt flash on start up, it indicates that gas level/pressure is OK.

 

You say the compressor no longer engages - are you sure? Check visually that the inner pulley on the compressor is static when the engine is running. The CC should be set to AUTO and you should also see that the main radiator fan(s) are spinning (at half speed).

 

Next check, I would say is check you can turn the compressor easily by hand (engine OFF and turn the inner pulley) - just to check the compressor hasnt seized (and possibly burnt out the electromagnetic clutch)

 

Then, with the engine off, I would disconnect the lead to the compressor and rig up a 12v feed to supply the compressor clutch directly - take care to use a safe form of 12v (via some kind of fuse and not direct off the battery). Listen for the "clack" as the clutch pulls in. If you get the clack then somehow arrange this with the engine running (don't even think about getting your hands in there with the engine running!). If the compressor runs then its an electrical problem - possibly the external temperature sensor or even a fuse.

 

 

BTW diagnosing an a/c problem over the phone is only for "clairvoyant" engineers :glare:

 

 

Thermoswitch N291 is mounted on the engine radiator (passenger side end about halfway up)

 

B73 Outside air temp sensor is mounted down behind the bumper, but I dont know which side on the MK2

Edited August 28, 2012 by seatkid

[SilverBeast]

Climatronic display doesn't always flash. Mine didn't when it was empty. I think I only saw it flash once when a "specialist" had refilled it after not finding the leak while the gas was still leaking out (took 2-3 hours). I believe there may be four pressure states the system recognises:-

(i) Normal - Don't Flash Display

(ii) Too High - Flash Display

(iii) Too Low - Flash Display

(iv) Even Lower/No Pressure - Don't Flash Display (Owner isn't going to fix me so flashing would be really annoying - or Ford Garage may be trying to sell 2nd Hand and don't want to go to the trouble of trying to fix it when they don't really know what they are doing)

 

If the leak is due to corrosion under the headlight as I mentioned above the right specialist can repair the pipe if the hole is in the right place. This thread on the "other" forum (Sorry SK :glare: ) I started shows mine repaired. It also shows the location of the MKII Ambient Ait Temperature sensor and the Pressure sensor in the airconditioning system. I saved a lot of money by stripping the front end enough (including removing the Radiator Opening panel ) so there was enough access to use the crimping tool required to perform the repair.